RESERVATION : Think & Answer these questions
Dear We invite you to present your view on current reservation policy,which is based on the caste.You are welcome in both cases whether you support current policy or oppose it.
Please answer these questions in your mail-
The reason behind reservation was to eliminate the caste system prevailing in India.
a) Do You think that current policy has succeded in doing so ?
b) Do you agree that you get knowledge of your friend's caste ony when you fills a form for entrance exams or governemnt job?
c) So do you now also agree that this reservation policy based on the caste will help to end the castes in indian society ? If yes then how?
Reservation Policy was to provide opportunity to backward classes(based on the castes) in the indian society.a) Do you think that after 60 year of independence the backward society(based on caste) has benifited from this?
b) Is all sections of the OBC/SC/ST caste has benfited from this? Is in this classes only a division has occured while some are getting the whole benifits of the reservation while some get nothing.
Reservation was there to end the in-equality in indian society. So that there are no differences from one men to another in this scociety.a) Is there inequality on the basis of caste & relogion only ?
b) You don't think the greatest ineuality is on the basis of money only.A person belonging to any caste or religion if he/she is poor then he has to suffer most in every field.
Reservation has become the most mis-used tool by polticians of impelmenting the DIVIDE & RULE POLICY similar to British rule.a) They are dividing us on the basis of caste & religions.
b) Actual problems of population,poverty,illetracy,corruption etc are being ignored.
Reservation nust be there but the policy must be changed.
a) Reservation must be on the basis of ECONOMIC PROSPERTY only,for all castes & relogions.
b) So that the division is not on the basis of caste & religion.
c) We support that the special privilage must be given to weaker section of society.But weaker means the econmically backward not the socially backward.
Do you not think that in cities the scoial inequality has ended?
a)You don't think that of which caste u'r friend is before making the freindship.Tell me yes or no.
b)You don't think that non-reservated section of society is being treated in simillar way as the jews were treated in Germany.Tell me yes or no.
SO FOR PROMTING THE EQUALITY IN THE INDIAN SOCIETY PLEASE RESPOND BACK WITH YOUR VALUABLE VIEWS.
Mail at: yfemeerut@gmail.com
posted by Indian at 10:18 AM
15 Comments:
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What's more, you could even shoot some videos of police atrocities and upoad them for free to Google Video and www.Youtube.com . The best part? Thay allow you to directly embed the videos to your blog! What could have a stronger impact than that?
Videos shot by mobiles are generally in the 3GPP format, something that's not supported natively by either of these sites. You may need a free video format convcerter like ImTOO MPEG Encoder 3 before uploading.
By the way, I am an ex-student of Fergusson College, Pune. Visit my blog for more information or suggestions. I'll be glad to help.
http://www.deepanjannag.blogspot.com
11:17 PM
Please we all have to unite & politically organize because in india only those were heard which can be benificial for winnig elections.
ex many leaders of BJP support us but they could not because they think that genaeral came out to vote
5:59 PM
Reservation-Haunts Again (More teeth added) -I
Again Reservation!
Warning!
I request everybody to read this mail from a common perspective. And request everybody to shun away their caste Identity. Still vast majority of people are toiling in villages suffering two pronged devils 1) Caste oppression and 2) Economic depression. And lower caste people (poor and slum) in urban area also still suffering social discrimination in either way (economic and/or Caste). Given this context in order to give even opportunity to everybody, reservation is the only option available in this system. The other option could be to demolish the system.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some arguments and Counter arguments:
#1) One of the prime argument by the Social oppressors is "Fair Competition"
This argument is primarily the argument of Neo Globalisation Middle class who benefited from the sufferings of American Employees. This Argument is valid against Upper caste, as in IT field they are representing more than 60%.
What is fair competition?
Is that the one we compete with American employees? Will any one us can survive if we have to have a fair competition with American counter part who lost job because of Outsourcing? If those upper caste elites are sooooooo honest and dedicated to fair competition then apply it to themself when they compete with USA employees. At least Do they have the courage to accept that not because of talent but because of Cheap labour that made the USA counter part loose the Fair competition with India and other countries? Those people shouldn't talk about Fair competition with this great immorality with in them.
#2) The other argument is Economically good - other caste people are enjoying Reservation. This argument has its base on the ignorance of the truth that Reservation are not based on Caste but based on population. But Reservations is not based on Caste, Based on population:
Reservation is given not based on caste. It is introduced to even the uneven sharing of lucrative, influential jobs by various social groups. The percentage of upper caste in total population is around 5% (tamil nadu statistics, This is little more in North India around 10%). Where as they occupy the whole lot of positions in All good-colored collar jobs(white etc).
The reservation is the same as reservation for Afro-American' in USA (all the companies- regardless of private or public). Unfortunately (Fortunate for some section) the social groups in India are Caste groups too.
The existing reservation is implemented partially. Till most of the Good-colored collar jobs are in the hands of upper caste. However there is no attempt from government to even the uneven sharing of jobs in Bad-colored collar jobs (Lavatory cleaning etc).
While the upper caste person can become a temple archagar for a lower caste God. Govt, Supreme Court, and other judicial bodies are banning a lower caste person become a archagar for an upper caste temple. is that a fair competition?
My opinion from the available statistics and from what I perceive everyday is that the reservation should be more than 90% for other than upper caste social groups. And it should be compensatory reservation system.
That is for example if the reservation for a particular caste group is not filled in the bad-colored collar jobs then the reservation for the particular group should be reduced in good-colored collar jobs. (If it hurts somebody then they have to understand that the cricket mail hurts the oppressed people....Sarcastical approach is not a sole property belongs upper caste).
#3) There are people who say increase allocation to education instead of reservation which would help the socially discriminated castes:
These people never ever lend their Voice for the solution they say. Till now, those social oppressors are struggling just to annihilate reservation. For those people: If their concern about India is Genuine, then they have to first join the struggle for Education & Employment to everybody. If it is implemented then they have the justification to struggle against reservation.
#4) Quality and Merit:
Latest cut-off marks for BCs and SC/STs in Tamil nadu professional -Entrance Exams for MBBS admission - Analyst, Jayaprakash Gandhi of Salem, notes that last year the cut off scores for MBBS entrance in the government colleges were (including the TNPCEE scores) - OC-295.74; BC -294.26; MBC-292.13; SC-287.56; and ST-274.00. Is the score 287.56 out of 300 is poor score and the SC people are idiots?
And there are no untoward incidents in India in any field that happened particularly due to poor quality Lower caste person. And I have to mention in Tami Nadu 67% reservation is there, No need to say Tamil nadu is more developed than other three southern states.
Indeed there are majority of ugly incidents involving only upper caste people, starting from India' first Central minister sacked for corruption T.Krishnamachary to Stock exchange scam Harshadh Medha. And we have examples where low caste people went to villages to serve their people.
Let's see the below statistics which contradict the share of various social groups in population:
IPS Total => 3300, Upper caste (Brahmin) ==> 2376 ----- 72%
Ministry of Defence(Class I) Total==> 1397, Upper caste(Brahmin) ==> 1332----96%
Ministry of Defence(Class II) Total==> 7752, Upper caste(Brahmin) ==> 6762----87%
Ministry of Defence(Class III) Total==> 2127, Upper caste(Brahmin) ==> 1332----62%
And this is because of the fact that still vast majority of people are toiling in villages suffering two pronged devils 1) Caste oppression and 2) Economic depression. And lower caste people (poor and slum) in urban area (especially- Mid towns) also still suffering social discrimination in either way(economic and/or Caste).
Given this context in order to give even opportunity to everybody, reservation is the only option available in this system. In order to distribute the available resources evenly, the other option could be 'Demolish this system-Revoultion'.
Which one will You Choose?
3:51 AM
My answers to Mr. Genius bonapert .
I agree with you that reservation not always dis-credit Merit, but it is very hard to prove whether it brings-up or brings-down the Merit. Let us leave the Merit Argument for now.
Reservation is a Ultimate Paradox where any one can justify both Pro and anti reservation stance. But anti- reservation side has a slight edge for the following reasons.
1. Who are the OBC's and why they need reservation. If the answer is Socially oppressed then they dont need reservation, because they have never been oppressed and they are the people who are still cultivating untouchability. I can cite many castes like vanniyars,thevars,yadav amnd even some backward Naidu who want to treat dalits as dogs, and many of my freiends in this caste has even has proved thatin their talks. Adding to the tragedy, in tamilnadu even the castes liek thevars,vanniyara,mudaliars,nadars that claims to be descendants of chola/chera/pandya kings are classified as back ward. Is it logical in any way? The movement is condemning that and not totally against reserving some genuine OBC communities.
2) If they are educationaly back ward - We are not against educating them. All, we ask is work on the basis of current statiscs and not on a 30yr old data by a poitical animal. Going by your argument, I can give you a case study in south where in 2005 MBBS results, so called back ward cornered 850 of 1200 seats consuming 370 of 400 open seats. I appreciate that BC's have intellectualluy grown and are capable of competing with any one and why the hell they still need reservations. Atleast remove some of those castes from OBC list or cut down the reservation perccentage or remove the creamy layer. This is what we are asking for and not against reservation for real needy.
3. If you talk about ecocnomic back wards ness, please refer to the article today Jun 02,in economic times , which states cleary that atleasst OBC and even SC's are at Par with OC's in terms of spending at different strata of scociety. I agree still there must be lot of poor in theese communities that need to be uplifted. That's the reason we are asking reservation for economic back wardness.
4. You are talking about rural people not having facilities/caste pressure and that's the reason they need reservation - That's the reasons we are asking for more Quality Primary schools and if needed let us special quato for rural students irrespective of castes. If you want we can exclude uppper caste in that. Give economic assistance i hope any poor upper caste can come up in life becuse they believe in them selves and are not cheap to beg for quotas.
5) Last but not the least about the third rated analysis you made about IT professional's in US. To some extent I agree that US is bringing jobs to India for cheap labor, but that is not true always. If you take the people who has settlled down in US before 1995, 90% are Upper caste and they are Doctore,scientists, lawyers and in other eminent positions. Only in the last 10years OBC/SC/ST community started coming to US and already some company started doubting the knowledge of indians. Can I say that these people has spoiled the reputation that was built by UppER Caste people? Though it might sound true, it is absurd to talk about these things in the 21st century.
Educuation should open 2 eyes, but should not make you blind. I understand that you might have some personal vengenace on a Upper caste community or you might be a creamy layer OBC who fear you might loose the priveleges if this agitation become successful. Beleive in law of Karma. In the next moment you may die and in the next birth you will born in a Upper caste family and may even a active member of YFE and I may even born in a dalit family. Wherever you are born beliebve in quality for all.
5:42 PM
I got a mail from YEF for my comments about reservation. The below is a reply I sent to them.
Dear YFE-Meerut,
I thankyou very much for your sincere reply to my arguments.
I will answer Mukesh on reservation in your blog itself. But I have to address your Immature arguments and your arrogant ignorance.
//My point of view on questions raised by you:
As I am living in Nothern India so my knowldege about Tamil Naidu is not much.
But the image we have about T.N is as follows -
Like other south states it is also developed but backward compared to others soth states.
In T.N development has started from some time only.//
My reply:
This clearly shows your lack of knowledge about southern states. It is not just Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad represent southern states.
In southern states Tamil nadu is the most urbanized state.
Agriculture is more stable than other states(I said stable, not great).
Small scale Industries is much more developed in Tamil Nadu than any other states.
The developement is spread across the states(not any specifc part of the state) that this is the reason Armed naxalites are unable to establish in Tamil Nadu till date.
//It is a politically amazing state where
people treat their leaders like GOD & even worship them .Their poltical arrogance is so much that one C.M put other ex- C.M into prision.Every time this happens as govt. changes.
The elections are won on very cheap issues like in present elections -DMK party promised to give a color T.V to all the voters if they win or to provide Rs 2/Kg rice to all.
These promises are not practical any cost . So I see T.N as a state where poltics is of cheap & like comprasion to bihar & u.p.//
So, This is your veiws about Tamil Nadu.. Thanks....
Could you please let me know for what reasons in your states people elected their representatives.
The Uglyness of present electoral system is to be blamed for the problems. As the present electoral system expired soon in tamil nadu than other states, the smell is coming. This is more philosophical part of the argument. If you need more clarification please come and read my articles in my Blog(www.kaipulla.blogspot.com).
//In T.N,society is divided into small fractions.There is no harmony among them.The reasons were the polticians that ignited the feelings of people. Politicians like Jaylalitha imprisioned the Shankracharya into jail without any requirement so that she can please the other castes. So this show that how much arrogance is their in T.N soceity . Also Islamic Jehadis are being supported their.Also jaya has to revert back the anti-Relgion Conervesion law to win elections which she has passed herself 2yrs before.//
Isalamic jehadis is much less than any other states. and the incidents happened so for also because of the Hindhu terrorist A.K. Advani' rath yadra in coimbatore. Now both these anti people terrorists got lost their public support. Thus the state is relatively calm. And everybody knows which state is not calm now.
From the above arguments and the below argument, I can guess what drives you:
//Jaylalitha imprisioned the Shankracharya //
Shankracharya is a criminal, sex saint. Why didn't you protest when other Sudra saints were arrested in tha same Tamil nadu. Are they not saints or Are they not Brahmins.
This criminal also treated like freedom fighter in Jail. He will do his morning duties(defacation) over a grean leaf and a sudra police man will remove the leaf out.
//jaya has to revert back the anti-Relgion Conervesion law to win elections which she has passed herself 2yrs before.//
So this clearly shows Anti religion conversion law is not the favorite for majority of Tamil people. Then I could conclude those who support anti religion conversion law are not the favourite to our people. So, Please keep away from ourself. Don't take anti people stance.
2:18 PM
On my blog,I have put forward some facts about Postgraduate courses Admissions in Medical colleges of Maharashtra.The fact is that open category students get less than 50% of PG seats.
Please visit http://maharashtramedicos.blogspot.com for detail artical.
Also let me know what is situation of PG admission in your state.
2:57 AM
Hi Friends,
I appreciate ur efforts and am strongly avrse of caste based reservation. I have compiled some good articles, news and pics related to Antireservation protests. The collection's name is ..http://noquotaplease.blogspot.com/
So i request u to go through this and feel free to reproduce any of the posts in ur blog . U can include this link in ur blog too if u want YFE Dallas has already included this .It may give a fresh impetus to our common cause.
All the Best . JAI HIND
AMIT
3:02 AM
Azim Premji says: "We have no alternative but to hire the best talent available within India and the best talent available globally to man our positions - critical positions, non-critical positions, (and) programming positions".
A few days ago, Headlines Today, the television channel, did a story on a massive job racket in the IT/ITES industry in Bangalore. 'Job agents' who arrange/manage tests and interviews for aspirants at any of the top companies, including Wipro, Infosys, Satyam, IBM etc., disclosed on hidden camera how easy it is for them to 'provide' jobs at these companies for a price. The racket, of which HR Managers at these companies are a key component, has 'provided', until now, jobs for thousands of dubious applicants in the industry. (The job racket isn't confined to Bangalore alone - folks in the business know that it is spread all over the south and some cities up north). The top managers at these companies pretend not to be aware of this scam.. But the truth is, they prefer to look the other way because.. they need 'people'. And lots of them. And apart from certain basic skills, they don't really look for much else. And, of course, the top bosses all have their own extra-curricular agendas like running down reservations and collecting awards - who has the time or the inclination to be squeamish about 'merit'?
2:24 AM
Reservations – Some Questions and their Answers
*
Q: What is reservation?
The word reservation is a misnomer. The appropriate word for it used in the
Indian constitution is Representation. It is not given to anyone in his
individual capacity. It is given to individual as a representative of the
underprivileged community. The beneficiaries of reservations are in turn
expected to help their communities to come up.
Q: Why reservation?
The policy of reservations is being used as a strategy to overcome
discrimination and act as a compensatory exercise. A large section of the
society was historically denied right to property, education, business and
civil rights because of the practice of untouchability. In order to
compensate for the historical denial and have safeguards against
discrimination, we have the reservation policy.
Q: Were Reservations incorporated by the founding fathers of the
constitution only for first 10 years?
Only the political reservations (seats reserved in Loksabha, Vidhansabha,
etc) were to be reserved for 10 years and the policy review was to be made
after that. That is why after every 10 years the parliament extends
political reservations.
The 10 year limit for reservations is not true for the reservations in
education and employment. The reservations in educational institutions and
in employment are never given extension as it is given for the political
reservations.
Q: Why give reservations on basis of caste?
To answer this question we must first understand why the need for the
reservations has arisen. The cause for the various types of disabilities
that the underprivileged castes in India face / have faced, is the systemic
historical subjugation of a massive magnitude based on caste system having a
religious sanction. Therefore if the caste system was the prime cause of all
the disabilities, injustice and inequalities that the Dalit-Bahujans
suffered, then to overcome these disabilities the solution has to be
designed on basis of caste only.
Q: Why not on basis of economic criterion?
Reservations should never be based on economic status for various reasons as
follows:
1. The poverty prevailing among the Dalit-Bahujans has its genesis in the
social-religious deprivations based on caste system. Therefore poverty is an
effect and caste system a cause. The solution should strike at the cause and
not the effect
2. An individual’s Economic status can change. Low income may be taken to
mean poverty. But the purchasing value of money, in India, depends upon
caste. For example a Dalit can not buy a cup of tea even in some places.
3. Practical difficulties in proving economic status of individual to the
state machinery are many. The weak may suffer.
4. In caste ridden India infested with rampant corruption, even for an
unchangeable status like caste, the false “Caste Certificate” can be
purchased. How much easier will it be to purchase a false “Income
Certificate”? So income based reservation is impractical. It is no use
arguing when both certificates can be bought, why caste only should form
basis of reservation. It is certainly more difficult to buy a false caste
certificate than a false income certificate.
5. Reservation is not an end in itself. It is a means to an end. The main
aim is to achieve the active participation and sharing by the “socially
excluded” humanity in all the fields of the affairs of the society. It is
not panacea for all ills, neither it is permanent. It would be a temporary
measure till such time the matrimonial advertisements in newspaper columns
continue to contain the mention of caste.
Q: Should there be a creamy layer criterion or not?
The demand from anti-reservationists for introduction of creamy layer is
ploy to scuttle the whole effectiveness of reservations. Even now out of all
seats meant for SC/STs in IITs , 25-40 % seats remain vacant because it
seems IITs do not find suitable candidates. Just imagine what would happen
if by applying creamy layer criterion the SC/ST middle class, lower middle
class people who are in position to take decent education are excluded from
reservations benefit ! Will the poor among SC/STs be able to compete with
these ‘privileged ’students’ trained under Ramaiah and at various IIT-JEE
training centers at Kota ?
Of course Not.
This will lead to 100 % seats in IITs for SC/STs going vacant.
Q: How long should the reservations continue?
The answer to this question lies with the anti-reservationists. It depends
on how sincerely and effectively the policy makers which constitute
“privileged castes” people in executive, judiciary and legislature,
implement the reservations policy.
Is it just on part of “privileged castes” people who have enjoyed undeclared
exclusive reservations for past 3000 years and continue to enjoy the same
even in 21st century in all religious institutions and places of worship, to
ask for the timelines for reservations policy?
Why do not they ask, how long the exclusive reservations for particular
community in the religious institutions and places of worship are going to
continue?
The people who have acquired disabilities due to inhuman subjugation for
3000 years will need substantial time to come over those disabilities. 50
years of affirmative action is nothing as compared to 3000 years of
subjugation.
Q: Will not the reservations based on castes lead to divisions in the
society?
There are apprehensions that reservations will lead to the divisions in the
society. These apprehensions are totally irrational. The society is already
divided into different castes. On the contrary reservations will help in
annihilating the caste system. There are around 5000 castes among the SC/ST
and OBCs. By grouping these various castes under 3 broad categories of SC,
ST and OBC, the differences among 5000 separate castes can be abridged. This
is a best way of annihilation of castes. Therefore rather than making
rhetoric about reservations leading to divisions in the society the
anti-reservationists should make honest and sincere efforts to annihilate
castes. Have these people made any efforts towards this direction? In most
of the cases the answer is NO. The people making these anti-reservations
rhetoric, all this time have been enjoying all the privileges that the
Indian caste system offers to the “Privileged Castes”. As long as they enjoy
the privileges of the caste system they do not have any qualms regarding it.
But when it comes to making castes as basis for achieving social equality by
providing representations these same people make noises. These are the
double standards of highest order practiced by the ‘privileged’ people.
Q: Will not reservations affect the Merit?
As regards to how Merit is defined in a very narrow sense and what it
actually means, following is the quote from an article by Prof Rahul Barman
of IIT Kanpur.
“Is merit all about passing exams? After all, are the exams a means or an
end? If the exams are means to look for ability to make better engineers,
doctors and managers, then can there be better methods to look for such
ability? After all in my first engineering class I was told that a good
engineer is the one who can produce the best out of the least resources and
similarly, management is supposed to find one’s way in an uncertain
situation – or allocate scarce resources in the most optimal way possible.
If that is so, whatever I have seen of our deprived masses (of which
overwhelming majority belongs to the backward, dalit castes or adivasis),
they have the astonishing capacity to make something productive from almost
next to nothing! For the last few years I have been studying small industry
clusters, like Moradabad brass, Varanasi silk and Kanpur leather. Put
together (all the clusters in the country), they are exporting more than the
IT sector and their cumulative employment will be several times of the
whole of IT industry. In all these clusters they operate with miniscule
resources – small investment, no electricity, forget about air-conditioning,
non existent roads, lack of water, and little formal education. These
clusters are primarily constituted of these so called backward/ dalit castes
and are truly a tribute to the genius that our society is. But in spite of
centuries of excellence these communities have hardly produced any formal
‘engineers’, ‘doctors’ and ‘managers’, and conversely these elite
institutions have not developed any linkages with such industries and their
people. ”
Reservations of more than 60 % have existed in the 4 states of southern
India and around 40 % in Maharashtra since last 50 years. On other hand in
the north Indian states the 15 % ‘privileged castes’ have been enjoying 77 %
of the seats in educational institutions and in employment (assuming that 23
% reservations for SC/STs are totally filled, which is not the case). The
World Bank study has found that all the 4 south Indian states are much ahead
of north Indian states in terms of their human development index. It is a
common knowledge that all the southern states and Maharashtra are much ahead
in fields of education, health, industrial development, in implementing
poverty alleviation schemes, etc. than the north Indian states. This shows
that reservations have indeed helped the southern Indian states in making
progress on various fronts. Whereas lack of adequate reservations is
responsible for the lack of development in most of the north Indian states.
Q: Have existing reservations for SC/STs been effective or not?
The reservation policy in the public sector has benefited a lot of people.
The Central government alone has 14 lakh employees. The proportion of
Scheduled castes in class III and IV is well above the quota of 16 per cent
and in class I and II, the proportion is around 8–12 per cent. So, the
middle and the lower middle class that we see today from the Dalit community
is because of reservation. With no reservation, the entry of these people in
government services would have been doubtful.
The situation is similar in education. An article in the EPW (Economic and
Political Weekly) estimates that there are seven lakh SC /ST students in
higher education and about half of them are there because of reservation.
Reservation has certainly helped but there are limitations in any policy
with the way it is implemented.
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